25.06.19 WKID AI Exchange # 15

Jun 20, 2025

On 6/24 We’ll probably chat more about the relationship between systems engineering and systems thinking and maybe about social engineering if we have time since I’m pretty sure we didn’t finish last time.

The WKID AI Exchange meets weekly on Tuesdays & Thursdays.

* Tue 11 am New York Time
* Thu 5 pm New York Time - no meeting on 6/26

If you'd like to participate, email systemswiki@gmail.com, and we'll send you the connect info.

Introduction to Systems Thinking and Engineering

The discussion starts with a mention of a YouTube channel called AI Revolution and its relevance to evolving technologies 00:39

Thor is trying to learn more about the relationships between systems thinking, systems engineering, and social engineering, particularly in the context of global problems and governance 01:34

The conversation explores the definition and scope of social engineering, with some questioning whether it is a correct term, and its relationship to systems engineering and other disciplines 03:35

A recent medical patient experienced issues with a hospital's system, including a missing order for a blood draw, highlighting the need for improved communication and systems thinking 15:10.

Defining Engineering and Systems Engineering

The patient, with 40 years of IT experience, has switched to teaching and tutoring, including math and robotics, and is now exploring systems thinking and intelligent design 18:06.

A lady in Seattle with a PhD in biophysics and bioengineering has applied engineering principles to the study of biology, creating a closed communication loop and filling knowledge gaps 19:05.

The discussion touches on the definition of engineering, with Bruce defining it as the application of mechanisms and technology to solve human problems, and the distinction between engineering a process and engineering a physical system 24:23.

Systems engineering involves a process that starts with an analysis of the problem or the requirements associated with a problem, and then works its way through alternatives to implementation, followed by verification and validation activities 29:41.

The role of a systems engineer is to develop an architecture that technically solves a problem, and they are concerned with the overall design, integration, management, and optimization of complex systems over their entire life cycle 31:55.

There is a distinction between systems thinking, which is a mindset and philosophy, and systems engineering, which is a discipline and practice 33:32.

Applying Systems Thinking and Engineering to Real-World Problems

The challenge is to get systems thinking and engineering solutions to address real-world problems, such as those faced by the general public, and to figure out who to call and what to do to solve these problems 40:09.

There are substantial differences with the solutions proposed by Republicans and Democrats, and one is as bad as the other, with the need to find a leverage point to make the problem visible 44:38

To solve a problem, it's essential to understand it first, rather than jumping to solutions, and having a framework or theoretical basis is crucial to figure out how to move ideas forward 45:54

The discussion is frustrating because it doesn't add value, and people are not making any progress, with the need to educate oneself and have a deeper understanding of the problem to have a more elevated discussion 46:31

Exploring Archetypes and Their Applications

The concept of archetypes is being explored across scientific disciplines and cultures, with the goal of understanding and applying a system of archetypes 57:46

There are seven basic plots, and being able to predict them can make watching movies boring, as it becomes possible to anticipate what will happen next 58:07

The pursuit of happiness and the desire to make a difference in life can lead to problems when individuals try to impose their own solutions, and understanding archetypes can help address theseissues 59:10

Chat Posts

17:00:24 From Gene Bellinger : AI Revolution: https://www.youtube.com/@airevolutionx
17:24:49 From John Kirk Browning : https://www.kumu.io/HelmutLeitner/systems-thinking-and-pattern-thinking
Systems and Sciences
- This map is mostly about the sciences in relationship to the system they investigate, under the broad aspect of system complexity and the polarity of causality-contingency.
- You can find discussions here: https://kumu.io/HelmutLeitner/systems-thinking-and-pattern-thinking/discussions.
17:30:49 From Gene Bellinger : se vs me https://g.co/gemini/share/64047e7c5e30
17:55:33 From Avi Dear : https://ideagens.com/
18:00:37 From Gene Bellinger : Systems Archetypes: https://kumu.io/-/18092

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